[ROVERNET - UK] 3500S specs for USA and Canada
David Sheuring
rovertcv8 at yahoo.com
Sat Mar 29 19:43:43 GMT 2008
Ok....
Why do I get the feeling like you are pissed off
Glen?????
All I was doing was my 2 cents worth.
It seems that as far as you are concerned, is that
There is only one rule, and its you.
I am sure that there are exceptions to the rules. That
is all I was trying to state.
David
--- Glen Wilson <rovercar at comcast.net> wrote:
> David Sheuring wrote:
> > Hi Glen
> > On the stalk issue...with the turn signal and
> horn,
> > they are reversed on the Crummy Blue Rover
> > Just thought I would throw that out to you....and
> oh,
> > I have a TC that had tinted windows and was NOT a
> A/C
> > equipped car.
> > I also know for a fact that there are diffenet
> wiring
> > harnesses for the TC and V8 as you can just look
> in
> > the manuals
> > David
> >
>
> David,
>
> The question was: "Was there a specific NADA wiring
> harness, or was
> there just one P6 harness with extra wires?" NADA
> vs. all other P6s.
> Not TC vs. V8. Remember the subject, here, is the
> 3500S.
>
> We can bring the TC in, but that's not what I was
> talking about as the
> subject of the message shows. Until the MKII TCs
> arrived, the two cars
> had completely different instrument panels, as well
> as what's under the
> hood, so what you say makes perfect sense.
>
> The tinted windows in your non-AC car is consistent
> with what I said,
> namely, that the tinted windows were offered as an
> option separate from
> the AC option. But, again, I was talking about the
> 3500S.
>
> Glen
>
>
> > --- Glen Wilson <rovercar at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Dennis,
> >>
> >> In the USA, they had to have those under-bumper
> turn
> >> indicators to be
> >> legal. That's the only reason they were put there
> in
> >> the first place.
> >> The TC's had them too, at least in the 1969
> >> brochure. Down here, it
> >> would have been illegal to sell them without
> those
> >> lights. Did Canada
> >> get a hodge-podge of parts because they had less
> >> specific laws than the
> >> United States? I can't say from down here, but we
> >> were all NADA. Was
> >> there a specific NADA wiring harness, or was
> there
> >> just one P6 harness
> >> with extra wires? Seems like some rewiring would
> be
> >> involved in deleting
> >> the under bumper lights.
> >>
> >> The bumpers of a 3500S are unique to the 3500S
> and
> >> so are the front
> >> wings to match them. If a 3500S was shipped with
> >> non-standard front
> >> bumpers, they would have to have been 2000TC
> bumpers
> >> which would mean
> >> the car had 2000TC front wings, as well. How
> could
> >> the factory send out
> >> a car like that?
> >>
> >> The brochure lists the tinted glass as a separate
> >> option. I suppose
> >> people without AC might also want tinted glass.
> It
> >> may or may not have
> >> been mandatory with AC, but the brochure doesn't
> say
> >> it was.
> >>
> >> What exactly do you mean about the steering wheel
> >> stalks and finishing
> >> trims in the boot? You have seen some 3500S's
> with
> >> foot dimmer
> >> switches and others with stalk dimmer switches.
> The
> >> 1969 2000TC manual
> >> says this: ""The directional indicators and horn
> >> are on the right side,
> >> the headlight flasher control on a stem to the
> left.
> >> The latter can be
> >> used to flash the high beams are either off or on
> >> low beam. The usual
> >> floor dimmer switch is also provided for changes
> of
> >> high and low beam."
> >> The left hand stalk could flash the high beams,
> but
> >> not switch them into
> >> an "on" mode.
> >>
> >> Even the May 1964 2000 Operator Manual states:
> "Foot
> >> dipper switch
> >> fitted to North American Dollar Area models."
> >> (There's the answer to
> >> another perennial question re NADA.) It also says
> >> that the "lift left
> >> lever to flash" function is only on NADA cars.
> >>
> >> So, back to the original question. Have you
> >> definitely seen 3500S's in
> >> Canada that don't have the dimmer footswitch on
> the
> >> floor? To me, it
> >> seems much more likely that such a car was
> modified
> >> by some owner than
> >> that it was manufactured that way at the factory.
>
> >> Even in 1964, NADA
> >> P6's had foot dimmers. Since ALL 3500S's in the
> USA
> >> and Canada were NADA
> >> cars, you would have to show me a 3500S without a
> >> foot dimmer or tell me
> >> that you are looking at one right now, for me to
> >> believe it.
> >>
> >> Is it possible that the car you are remembering
> was
> >> a TC and not a
> >> 3500S? Maybe a non-NADA LHD 2000 or 2000TC was
> >> imported into Canada by
> >> someone.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure what you mean by finishing trims in
> the
> >> boot. All P6s had
> >> the cardboard "finishing" panels shown in the
> >> brochure. I know the 3500S
> >> had a carpeted trunk. If I picked up my 3500S at
> the
> >> dealership and
> >> there was no carpet in the trunk, they wouldn't
> get
> >> away with telling ME
> >> it was a "factory difference" or any other words
> to
> >> that effect! What a
> >> euphemism that would be for a major quality
> control
> >> mistake.
> >>
> >> I think that differences such as you describe are
> >> more likely to have
> >> been people messing with the cars some time
> during
> >> the past 35 years,
> >> not factory differences. If I saw a car with a
> >> non-NADA spec headlight
> >> dimmer circuit, I would check the VIN to see if
> it
> >> was ever intended to
> >> end up in North America.
> >>
> >> Glen
> >>
> >> Brooks wrote:
> >>
> >>> Glen...
> >>>
> >>> I know this Rover was sitting for quite a while
> on
> >>>
> >> the holding area in
> >>
> >>> PQ I believe (Dad can confirm if I ask) and it
> was
> >>>
> >> not a car that was
> >>
> >>> handled by any "Rover" dealers...it was sold
> only
> >>>
> >> through british
> >>
> >>> leyland dealers at that time in Atlantic
> >>>
> >> Canada....dealers would not
> >>
> >>> be apt to be changing steering wheel stalks or
> >>>
> >> bumpers without turn
> >>
> >>> signals mounted beneath them...nor would they be
> >>>
> >> removing finishing
> >>
> >>> trims in the boot to suit a customers
> needs...not
> >>>
> >> something I can
> >>
> >>> believe.
> >>> The radio was indeed an option...and so was the
> >>>
> >> air...I did forget
> >>
> >>> about that...however the windshield would
> probally
> >>>
> >> be part of the air
> >>
> >>> conditioning package.
> >>> I know anything is possible...but let's face
> >>>
> >> it...It is highly
> >>
> >>> unlikely that dealers would be interested in
> >>>
> >> changing such
> >>
> >>> items...cosmetics perhaps...but steering stalks
> >>>
> >> for turn signals and
> >>
> >>> removing foot dimmers...I don't think it's even
> a
> >>>
> >> possibility. These
> >>
> >>> cars came over with factory differences and I
> see
> >>>
> >> no proof to say
> >>
> >>> otherwise.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Wilson"
> >>>
> >> <rovercar at comcast.net>
> >>
> >>> To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 11:55 AM
> >>> Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] 3500S specs for USA and
> >>>
> >> Canada
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> Brooks wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> To my knowledge there were "NO" options
> >>>>>
> >> available for the 3500S back
> >>
> >>>>> in 70-71 in Canada....My Father bought his
> >>>>>
> >> "brand New" and that's
> >>
> >>>>> one thing I recall him telling people...this
> car
> >>>>>
> >> came just like you
> >>
> >>>>> see it....the only choice he was able to make
> >>>>>
> >> when he ordered the
> >>
> >>>>> car was the color.
> >>>>> I have had several 3500s Rovers and not one
> was
> >>>>>
> >> exactly the same as
> >>
> >>>>> the other....There were factory differences
> >>>>>
> >> ....and I suspect that
> >>
> >>>>> the pillars were indeed original and not an
> >>>>>
> >> option....however how
> >>
> >>>>> many were released that way from the factory
> >>>>>
> >> would be almost
> >>
> >>>>> impossible to know.
> >>>>>
> >>>> I think there may easily have been DEALER
> >>>>
> >> differences, but I think
> >>
> >>>> that genuine "factory differences" were
> >>>>
> >> exceedingly rare, if they
> >>
> >>>> existed at all. I just don't think they put TC
> >>>>
> >> body panels on a 3500S
> >>
> >>>> and sent it on its way.
> >>>>
> >>>> The vinyl-covered sail panels were not standard
> >>>>
> >> or optional on the
> >>
> >>>> 3500S. They aren't in the brochure, dealer
> price
> >>>>
> >> lists, or
> >>
> >>>> replacement parts manual. According to James
> >>>>
> >> Taylor, the Federal
> >>
> >>>> 2000TC MkII and 3500S were in production
> >>>>
> >> concurrently for a few
> >>
> >>>> months at the end, so presumably the vinyl
> >>>>
> >> covered sail panels could
> >>
> >>>> have been ordered by the dealer and installed
> on
> >>>>
> >> a new 3500S, but you
> >>
> >>>> would have gone home with a couple of Tobacco
> >>>>
> >> Leak sail panels in
> >>
> >>>> your boot. Maybe the dealer ate the cost of the
> >>>>
> >> sail panels to sell
> >>
> >>>> the car.
> >>>>
> >>>> This question of what was standard and what was
> >>>>
> >> optional on the 3500S
> >>
> >>>> shouldn't be something that's open to question
> >>>>
> >> since it is clearly
> >>
> >>>> documented.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've never seen ANY documentation showing that
> >>>>
> >> the US and Canada
> >>
> >>>> 3500S's were anything but identical in
> >>>>
> >> specification and options. It
> >>
> >>>> might be hard to buy a car with air
> conditioning
> >>>>
> >> off the lot in
> >>
> >>>> Yellowknife, but that's not because the options
> >>>>
> >> or specifications
> >>
> >>>> differed between the two countries. Maybe
> there's
> >>>>
> >> some sort of dealer
> >>
> >>>> memorandum that came out of Burlington that
> says
> >>>>
> >> otherwise, but no
> >>
> >>>> one seems able to produce a copy of it.
> >>>>
> >>>> If Dennis' father's dealer only sold the car in
> >>>>
> >> one configuration,
> >>
> >>>> that was the dealers policy, not Rover Company
> >>>>
> >> policy. The glossy
> >>
> >>>> color brochures listed the optional and
> standard
> >>>>
> >> equipment. Maybe the
> >>
> >>>> dealer was keen on selling cars he already had
> in
> >>>>
> >> stock and reluctant
> >>
> >>>> to order cars he might get stuck with if the
> >>>>
> >> buyer changed his mind.
> >>
> >>>> Still, if anyone wanted a car with the optional
> >>>>
> >> extra-cost air
> >>
> >>>> conditioning, it would be sort of crazy for the
> >>>>
> >> dealer to refuse to
> >>
> >>>> sell it to him. Sounds more like the dealer was
> >>>>
> >> "optioning up" all of
> >>
> >>>> the cars he brought in. If this dealer was the
> >>>>
> >> only Rover dealer in
> >>
> >>>> New Brunswick, he could probably get away with
> >>>>
> >> whatever he wanted.
> >>
> >>>> There definitely were optional items listed in
> >>>>
> >> the brochures
> >>
> >>>> distributed in the United States and Canada. My
> >>>>
> >> brochure lists
> >>
> >>>> British Leyland offices in Leonia, New Jersey
> and
> >>>>
> >> Burlington,
> >>
> >>>> Ontario. So, there was one brochure and one
> >>>>
> >> specification for both
> >>
> >>>> countries.
> >>>>
> >>>> The options were:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. Air Conditioning
> >>>> 2. Sundym Tinted Glass (separate option)
> >>>> 3. Electrically Heated Rear Window
> >>>> 4. Radio AM/FM
> >>>> 5. Roof Rack
> >>>>
> >>>> That's it.
> >>>>
> >>>> The boot-mounted spare was standard. No
> optional
> >>>>
> >> wheels are mentioned
> >>
> >>>> in the brochure as had been the case with the
> >>>>
> >> 2000TC, just pressed
> >>
> >>>> steel wheels with stainless steel wheel covers.
> >>>>
> >> All of the brochures,
> >>
> >>>> magazine ads and road tests show the standard
> >>>>
> >> wheel covers. Two
> >>
> >>>> exterior mirrors were standard. There was NO
> >>>>
> >> leather interior option.
> >>
> >>>> The steering wheel was leather-covered in all
> >>>>
> >> cars. Power windows,
> >>
> >>>> steering and brakes were standard.
> >>>>
> >>>> If anyone thinks that the above is not
> accurate,
> >>>>
> >> it would be
> >>
> >>>> fantastic to get documented proof that the
> >>>>
> >> factory documents I have
> >>
> >>>> are incomplete and were superseded by other
> >>>>
> >> documents that followed.
> >>
> >>>> I'd be happy to post them on the web so that
> >>>>
> >> people could see them.
> >>
> >>>> Glen
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>>
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