Fw: [ROVERNET - UK] Brake hook-up

Sun Apr 22 12:45:15 BST 2007

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fletcher" <gofanu at usachoice.net>
To: "Paul Smith" <vmitps at netspace.net.au>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Brake hook-up


> 1) OK ain't great!
> 2) Proves my screwup point, and certainly a little of 1) is better than
> any of 2)
> 3) Way too long since I did one of these - and I'm glad!
>
> Mebbe you should send this whole thing in for the group!
> FRM
>
> Paul Smith wrote:
>
> >Well, I have tried it both ways.
> >1.  They bleed ok.
> >2.  With the inlet on the bottom, the brakes stick on for 1 second when
you
> >release the pedal.  I finally worked out it was due to the flexible hose
> >from the base unit pinching on the caliper.
> >
> >PVS
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: "Fletcher" <gofanu at usachoice.net>
> >To: "Paul Smith" <vmitps at netspace.net.au>
> >Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 4:52 PM
> >Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Brake hook-up
> >
> >
> >>Did that, and I still don't think it's "clearly"! That may be what they
> >>intended. It's still lousy practice, and it cannot be counted on to give
> >>good brakes, though they may bleed themselves eventually, or at least
> >>get the air to where you can get it out. Just like MGB, where the wheel
> >>cylinders are mounted upside down, with the bleeders at the bottom, for
> >>no good reason - leaving a small but real air pocket between the
> >>pistons. The backing plates can be swapped side to side, putting the
> >>bleeders at the top of both cylinder and plate, the lines on top too -
> >>where they are safer, and the adjusters on the bottom, where you can
> >>reach them easily. I'm convinced it was designed that way and then
> >>turned over!
> >>Just proves to me that even Rover could and did screw up - if you are
> >>correct that your description is OE.
> >>FRM
> >>
> >>Paul Smith wrote:
> >>
> >>>The rear calipers are low volume/small pistons.
> >>>Have a good look at the RH caliper connections in 24L...!
> >>>
> >>>PVS
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>From: "Fletcher" <gofanu at usachoice.net>
> >>>To: "Paul Smith" <vmitps at netspace.net.au>; <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> >>>Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 3:44 PM
> >>>Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Brake hook-up
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Paul-
> >>>>Dint either! I know it works on pipes, I was talking about large
> >>>>volumes, i.e. calipers; and that is implicit in my description of the
> >>>>interconnect pipe as "...exits high, enters the other side low...".
> >>>>I got 24L --( "clearly" exiting from below the entry pipe)  -- is
> >>>>clearly a hell of a stretch! Given the effects of perspective, angles,
> >>>>and the like, I don't get any clear sense of the position in vertical
> >>>>dimension.
> >>>>
> >>>>FRM
> >>>>
> >>>>Paul Smith wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Nup!
> >>>>>You assumed a volume that precludes surface tension effects.
> >>>>>The bubbles will move Down through a small volume.  Brake pipe
bleeding
> >>>>>relies on this.  It works on the rear calipers.
> >>>>>The book Does show it, just not closeup, see P.70.25.02 in the P6B
> >>>>>
> >manual
> >
> >>>>>fopr the bleed nipple, and 24L in the 2000 manual for showing the
whole
> >>>>>system, with the caliper link pipe clearly exiting from Below the
entry
> >>>>>
> >>>pipe
> >>>
> >>>>>to the RH caliper.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>PVS
> >>>>>One day I will measure the voltage on the headlights...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>>>From: "Fletcher" <gofanu at usachoice.net>
> >>>>>To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> >>>>>Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 2:45 PM
> >>>>>Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] Brake hook-up
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Guys-
> >>>>>>Odd that Rover doesn't show how to hook up the pipes, maybe they
> >>>>>>
> >figure
> >
> >>>>>>you can figure it out!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The simple fact is that it's just physics; regardless of how it
"was"
> >>>>>>or is "supposed to be" -- there's only one thing that works. Any
> >>>>>>
> >pocket
> >
> >>>>>>that is closed at the top will hold air and therefore cannot be
bled -
> >>>>>>there must be a top exit port.
> >>>>>>***This means that fluid has to go in low and come out high.***
> >>>>>>So, for a single bleed screw system with two cylinders, the fluid
goes
> >>>>>>in low, exits high, enters the other side low, and exits high at the
> >>>>>>bleed screw.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>It is expected that all of these cars today have been apart and had
> >>>>>>
> >many
> >
> >>>>>>things changed, DO NOT assume that "how it was" is even close.
> >>>>>>
> >Fittings
> >
> >>>>>>can be very misleading; ports are commonly machined with tools that
> >>>>>>
> >make
> >
> >>>>>>one type of port that is suitable for multiple different fittings,
and
> >>>>>>these things are not necessarily reversible. Bleed screw ports are
the
> >>>>>>same thread and sometimes the same bottom configuration as the
> >>>>>>
> >threaded
> >
> >>>>>>hose or tube end ports. One common port is for the round nose long
> >>>>>>3/8-24 hose end or male tube/bubble flare nut, but is more often
used
> >>>>>>with a short 3/8 -24 copper gasket sealed hose, or banjo bolts with
> >>>>>>
> >the
> >
> >>>>>>same copper gaskets,  at caliper and other cylinder ports. There are
> >>>>>>similar and perhaps more common tapered end/double flare hoses,
which
> >>>>>>will deform to round end in a round bottom port. . There are
inverted
> >>>>>>flare pipe ends that use the same male nut as double or bubble flare
> >>>>>>fittings. This can confuse the hell out of you, but it can also be
> >>>>>>
> >used
> >
> >>>>>>to advantage when forced to make do - which again leads to mystery
the
> >>>>>>next time round.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>There are in fact a few demented systems which do not follow these
> >>>>>>
> >rules
> >
> >>>>>>- though it's usually a case of the wrong but similar parts fitted,
> >>>>>>
> >and
> >
> >>>>>>they are a PITA to service; if you meet this particular Buddha in
the
> >>>>>>road, definitely kill it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>FRM
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>rovernet mailing list
> >>>>>>rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> >>>>>>To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>instructions:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> >>>>>>Back-up list and photos at:
> >>>>>>http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>-- 
> >>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>>>>Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.6/770 - Release Date:
> >>>>>>
> >>>20/04/2007
> >>>
> >>>>>6:43 PM
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>-- 
> >>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>>Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.6/770 - Release Date:
> >>>>
> >20/04/2007
> >
> >>>6:43 PM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-- 
> >>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.6/770 - Release Date:
20/04/2007
> >>
> >6:43 PM
> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 21/04/2007
11:56 AM
>