[ROVERNET - UK] Rover P6 master cylinder master class

James Dean jaguru at bellsouth.net
Mon Mar 10 23:06:26 GMT 2008


I have no room to do  customer restoration, since my move 5 years ago, when 
the property I leased  in Ft. Lauderdale was sold to developers.I now just 
sell parts from my 30 year hoard, primarily on my eBay store.. About the 
last 5 years I did restorations, I quit rebuilding hydraulic cylinders. When 
I was building a ground up car reliability and high standards were more 
important than cost. I simply sent everything to Apple Hydraulics to be 
stainless sleeved and rebuilt. These were usually Jaguars, Austin Healeys, 
and fairly ecxpensive cars and restorations. I simply told the customer that 
brake cylinders were guaranteed one year by Apple; if there were any 
warrantee claims, call Apple.I never had a probem except one  misguided 
Doctor who insisted on rebuilding his calipers one at a time, when they 
leaked.. Naturally, when done a year apart, the next one with failing rubber 
would contaminate the system, causing the previous one to leak, from dirt in 
the fluid. I sent one back to Apple after 2 years, Lazar charged me for a 
kit, said the cause was dirt in the fluid, and sent it back rebuit; no labor 
cost..
     From the point of view of a restoration shop, doing complete 
restorations, I chose to let Apple do them, and Warrantee them. I do not 
know what they used or how they did it, but they always worked .Naturally, 
doing $60,000 restorations ten years ago, there were few Rover P6, but they 
had a perfect track record on Jaguars. Apple  did do one P4 we restored, and 
there were no brake problems
     I do agree that if doing your own work on your own car, it  is best to 
carefully choose components from those  suppliers. If you then want to send 
your kit to Apple, or  someone else to sleeve and rebuild it; they will use 
your parts, and  probably should give the one year guarantee, but you would 
have to inquire. James Dean
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glen Wilson" <rovercar at comcast.net>
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Rover P6 master cylinder master class


> Has anyone on the Rovernet ever had a 3500S master cylinder rebuilt that 
> was properly done and functioned as it should?
>> P6 units may or may not be the same internally as other Girling units .
>> They may contain [ undocumented ??]Rover specific parts
>
> Parts are well documented in the Rover service manuals. Other manuals, who 
> knows?
>> Minor differences between small parts  may have major consequences
>> Master cylinder rebuild kits from any source may or may not contain all 
>> the parts/ the correct parts  needed to rebuild a Rover unit
>
> Change "any source" to "suppliers without specific Rover expertise"
>> Absent a certified Merlin with access to Girling and Rover's cook books , 
>> any rebuilt P6 master cylinder from any source  may [ should / must ??? 
>> be suspect ?
>
> Don't remember hearing that. Call Ruth, Dermot or Pierre and trust their 
> expertise. I don't know if James gets into rebuilds on hydraulics. Rebuilt 
> master cylinders from "any" source without Rover expertise may be suspect 
> and may be false economy.
>
>> A new NOS unit is probably the best , if not cheapest way to go
>>
>> Since I don't want to take any chances the safest route is to buy a NOS 
>> P6 master cylinder ??
>
> If you can find one and it isn't bad from sitting on a shelf for thirty 
> years. Good luck finding one.
>> There is no "official list ' of interchangeable Girling master cylinders 
>> , so no one can tell me if a NOS E type  Jaguar master cylinder can be 
>> fitted to a P6 .
> I don't have one, anyway.
>
>
>>
>>
>>> That's the case with:
>>> 1.  The kit for the dual piston Rover 2000 brake
>>> master.  If you buy an aftermarket kit from a certain
>>> UK supplier (not Pierre)the metal "tip valve" won't be
>>> included.  I determined from the maker that there are
>>> two kit numbers.  One kit number will have their valve
>>> and the other kit won't.  If you buy your kit from a
>>> commercial supplier and assume it will contain the
>>> tipping valve - you may be disappointed.  Remember if
>>> you "assume", you will make an "ass" out of "u" and
>>> "me"  :-)
>>>
>>> 2.  The fuel pump kit for the Rover 2000.  the
>>> aftermarket kits don't include the oil seal that
>>> connects the fuel section with the mechanical rocker
>>> arm section.  You can't "fully" rebuild the pump.
>>>
>>> "Caveat emptor"
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- Glen Wilson <rovercar at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Another thing to be aware of is that companies like
>>>> Lockheed and Girling
>>>> often sold five similar rebuild kits in the 60's
>>>> which later generations
>>>> of management decided to "rationalize" by listing
>>>> one kit that would
>>>> supposedly cover all five previous applications.
>>>> "For RTF55525,
>>>> substitute GHJ6473."  The later "catch-all" kit
>>>> often did not contain
>>>> all of the special parts that were in the other
>>>> kits. In going through
>>>> boxes of NOS parts from the 60's, I have frequently
>>>> found that the
>>>> substitute part from the 80's did not contain a
>>>> particular spring washer
>>>> or o-ring necessary for one of the five applications
>>>> covered by the
>>>> "updated" number.
>>>>
>>>> Glen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Netspace wrote:
>>>> > The Girling front pads are a Girling stock item.
>>>> > The boosters are the same design, just different
>>>> gain ratio.
>>>> >
>>>> > BTW a PBR VH44 has a higher gain and works better
>>>> on the P6B than the
>>>> > standard booster.
>>>> >
>>>> > PVS
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Wilson"
>>>> <rovercar at comcast.net>
>>>> > To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
>>>> > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 9:50 AM
>>>> > Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] Rover brake parts and
>>>> other stuff...
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It's wise to ask questions of the Rovernet
>>>> because even as late as
>>>> >> the 60's and 70's there were some oddball parts
>>>> made specifically to
>>>> >> Rover specs that apparently were not manufactured
>>>> in sufficient
>>>> >> numbers to warrant a specific part number from
>>>> the manufacturer. Why
>>>> >> they didn't, I can't say because it seems sloppy
>>>> to me. Apparently,
>>>> >> Rover would say, "Send us 1500 of part number
>>>> 1J658S, but put a
>>>> >> slightly lighter spring in it." Rover assigned it
>>>> a specific part
>>>> >> number as a Rover part, but the manufacturer
>>>> apparently saw it as an
>>>> >> OEM sale item not to be added to their catalog.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The argument that any given manufacturer would
>>>> not make a unique
>>>> >> casting for Rover doesn't really hold water,
>>>> either. A manufacturer
>>>> >> would be tickled pink to make a specific casting
>>>> or part for Rover
>>>> >> because they could charge them extra for it. When
>>>> the P6 was in
>>>> >> production, Rover seemed to be more concerned
>>>> with correct
>>>> >> engineering and doing things their own way than
>>>> they were with buying
>>>> >> off-the-shelf parts used in Fords and MGs. Aside
>>>> from the rear brake
>>>> >> pads, there doesn't seem to be much about the
>>>> braking system that was
>>>> >> taken from high volume auto manufacturers.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Glen
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> rovernet mailing list
>>>> >> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>>>> >> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near
>>>> the bottom and follow
>>>> >> instructions:
>>>> >>
>>>> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
>>>> >> Back-up list and photos at:
>>>> >> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> >> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus
>>>> Database: 269.21.7/1322 -
>>>> >> Release Date: 9/03/2008 12:17 PM
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > rovernet mailing list
>>>> > rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>>>> > To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the
>>>> bottom and follow
>>>> > instructions:
>>>> >
>>>> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
>>>> > Back-up list and photos at:
>>>> > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> rovernet mailing list
>>>> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the
>>>> bottom and follow instructions:
>>>> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
>>>> Back-up list and photos at:
>>>> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Webmaster of The Rover Car Club of Canada
>>> Website:  http://www.roverclub.ca/
>>> Webmaster of a variety of sites from:
>>> http://www.websrus.ca
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>>> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
>>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> rovernet mailing list
>>> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow 
>>> instructions:
>>> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
>>> Back-up list and photos at:
>>> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG.
>>> Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1323 - Release Date: 
>>> 3/10/2008 11:07 AM
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> rovernet mailing list
>> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow 
>> instructions:
>> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
>> Back-up list and photos at:
>> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rovernet mailing list
> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow 
> instructions:
> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> Back-up list and photos at:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/ 




More information about the rovernet mailing list