[ROVERNET - UK] RE: rovernet Digest, Vol 46, Issue 53
Dirk Burrowes
dirk at vy-tek.com
Fri Sep 29 05:36:56 BST 2006
Hi Ben,
I spent most of last weekend on the same problem but with my P3. After hours
of work I ended up rebuilding the carb and adjusting the timing. In the end
I found that the carb was the source of the problem along with a mal
adjusted distributor. Given that you problem is almost a mirror to mine I
would bet the farm it is a bad jet, clogged or something like that.
My 2 cents
Dirk
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 6:21 PM
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Subject: rovernet Digest, Vol 46, Issue 53
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[ROVERNET-UK]
Today's Topics:
1. Re: tough nut (David Read)
2. Re: Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!! (Ben Rodgers)
3. Re: tough nut (and more brake woes) (peter king)
4. Re: Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!! (Brooks)
5. Re: tough nut (and more brake woes) (Vern Klukas)
6. PETER Re: [ROVERNET - UK] tough nut (and more brake woes)
(Glen Wilson)
7. RE: Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!! (Paul Smith)
8. Re: Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!! (Slatskars)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 00:32:56 +0930
From: David Read <defender110 at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] tough nut
To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
Message-ID: <451BE420.9070306 at ozemail.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
As an addendum to Gavin's suggestion, have you tried to use a 6 point
socket as they also give side grip, not just corners as a 12 point does?
Cheers
Dave
South Oz
Gavin.Walker at csiro.au wrote:
> Peter,
> I'd suggest going to repco and getting a "Metrinch" socket the right
> size. If you've only taken off the corners and it's not completely
> round the socket should work. Metrinch sockts have lumps on the inside
> that drive off the flanks and not the tips of the hex.
>
> If that fails then file two parallel flats in it and use a big open
> ended spanner.
>
> Gavin Walker
> Canberra, Australia
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:07:24 -0300
From: "Ben Rodgers" <irishrover at netscape.ca>
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!!
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Message-ID: <000001c6e329$13c21a90$92c63042 at yourc8bh3jaglt>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Guys
I need help! The Rover has me stumped (1967 P5 Mk3 Std )
The car starts and idles okay with full choke on , but once underway I can
hardly get out of second gear and continue to need choke. When I rev it
struggles and coughs back thru carb, and the engine dies, that indicates a
weak mixture, its also running on the hot side. At first it appeared to be
the mixture, too rich because of choke but I really believe its too much
air, (it coughs thru the carb). I have checked the carb, gas lines, air
connections etc, nothing obviously wrong. I decided it was not getting
enough gas and as everything checked out in the engine bay. I started at the
source, the gas tank, removed cleaned and sealed inside, replaced the dual
Lucas pumps with a single after market pump supplied by Ruth at ABC. Took
the car for a drive of about four miles it worked fair but not just right.
Stopped to filled up with gas then tried to start the car for return
journey, would barely idle and stalled when I tried to move. I noticed that
the distributor was very hot, heat shield wasn't quite in place (now
corrected). I waited while everything cooled and managed to drive home very
gently. Next I decided the petronix unit was cooked so replaced with points,
no improvement, still started easy and idled but no revs. I decided next the
coil, the wire was a bit green so replaced that, no improvement. I have to
date done the following - cleaned gas tank. replaced fuel pump. checked
everything from tank to engine (several times) checked carb float level,
checked all air connections. check coil and changed coil wire. cleaned and
re-gapped plugs. checked bolts on intake manifold. played with carb mixture
and air screw. I'm stumped, the problem seems to be that the engine is
running too weak, getting too much air, but where from. What else could it
be??. What am I missing here???? I need the help of the Rovernet Brain Trust
on this one please please please.
Regards Ben
Sitting in my
coracle stumped!
I have replaced the exhaust valves and had cylinder head cleaned and planed
approx two years ago, not many miles on car since.
FREDERICK (BEN) RODGERS
born in Belfast, Northern Ireland,
Author of "lily and me" a great book and a great read .
Order on line at amazon.com. Book # ISBN1-55430-019-3
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:18:49 -0400
From: peter king <peter at king-co.com>
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] tough nut (and more brake woes)
To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
Message-ID: <10C94D10-71AB-4B56-879C-AD2B10AC5190 at king-co.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Thanks to all for your replies. I finally managed to get the nasty
job done, using an impact tool and a modified socket, 1/16 smaller
than the nut and pounded onto it. I broke the impact tool, but it did
enough to allow me to swap my torque wrench onto the socket and get
the nut to turn. Hoorah!! I finished the job this morning and I'm
back on the road. Good thing, because the '63 P5's brakes just went
south. I suspect the master failed, because the fluid drained and is
nowhere to be seen, and when I started the car, a huge plume of white
smoke poured out. My guess is that the fluid has been sucked into the
head through the vacuum line. Does this sound right to you?
Time for another rebuild....
pk
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:48:40 -0300
From: "Brooks" <restore at nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!!
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Message-ID: <000801c6e32e$b725daf0$0100a8c0 at DENNIS>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Ben...
It sounds like you have covered almost every likley area...I can only add
to your list of suspects...have you tried checking the volume of gas that is
entering the carb ?? also like you say it does sound a lot like it may be
getting air somewhere...perhaps the carb gasket ??..just a couple of ideas
that may not even apply..but who knows it looks like youv'e been going after
the primarary sources of troubles.
Good luck..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Rodgers" <irishrover at netscape.ca>
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!!
> Hi Guys
> I need help! The Rover has me stumped (1967 P5 Mk3 Std )
> The car starts and idles okay with full choke on , but once underway I can
> hardly get out of second gear and continue to need choke. When I rev it
> struggles and coughs back thru carb, and the engine dies, that indicates a
> weak mixture, its also running on the hot side. At first it appeared to be
> the mixture, too rich because of choke but I really believe its too much
> air, (it coughs thru the carb). I have checked the carb, gas lines, air
> connections etc, nothing obviously wrong. I decided it was not getting
> enough gas and as everything checked out in the engine bay. I started at
> the
> source, the gas tank, removed cleaned and sealed inside, replaced the dual
> Lucas pumps with a single after market pump supplied by Ruth at ABC. Took
> the car for a drive of about four miles it worked fair but not just right.
> Stopped to filled up with gas then tried to start the car for return
> journey, would barely idle and stalled when I tried to move. I noticed
> that
> the distributor was very hot, heat shield wasn't quite in place (now
> corrected). I waited while everything cooled and managed to drive home
> very
> gently. Next I decided the petronix unit was cooked so replaced with
> points,
> no improvement, still started easy and idled but no revs. I decided next
> the
> coil, the wire was a bit green so replaced that, no improvement. I have to
> date done the following - cleaned gas tank. replaced fuel pump. checked
> everything from tank to engine (several times) checked carb float level,
> checked all air connections. check coil and changed coil wire. cleaned and
> re-gapped plugs. checked bolts on intake manifold. played with carb
> mixture
> and air screw. I'm stumped, the problem seems to be that the engine is
> running too weak, getting too much air, but where from. What else could it
> be??. What am I missing here???? I need the help of the Rovernet Brain
> Trust
> on this one please please please.
> Regards Ben
> Sitting in my
> coracle stumped!
>
>
> I have replaced the exhaust valves and had cylinder head cleaned and
> planed
> approx two years ago, not many miles on car since.
>
>
>
>
>
> FREDERICK (BEN) RODGERS
> born in Belfast, Northern Ireland,
> Author of "lily and me" a great book and a great read .
> Order on line at amazon.com. Book # ISBN1-55430-019-3
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rovernet mailing list
> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
> instructions:
> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> Back-up list and photos at:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/458 - Release Date: 27/09/2006
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:53:19 -0700
From: Vern Klukas <vern at inkspotco.com>
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] tough nut (and more brake woes)
To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
Message-ID: <a06230900c141ca1e3e6d@[192.168.1.100]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Brake booster rear seal failure, from the sounds of it. Symptoms are
exactly correct.
Yours
Vern
>Thanks to all for your replies. I finally managed to get the nasty
>job done, using an impact tool and a modified socket, 1/16 smaller
>than the nut and pounded onto it. I broke the impact tool, but it
>did enough to allow me to swap my torque wrench onto the socket and
>get the nut to turn. Hoorah!! I finished the job this morning and
>I'm back on the road. Good thing, because the '63 P5's brakes just
>went south. I suspect the master failed, because the fluid drained
>and is nowhere to be seen, and when I started the car, a huge plume
>of white smoke poured out. My guess is that the fluid has been
>sucked into the head through the vacuum line. Does this sound right
>to you?
>
>Time for another rebuild....
>
>pk
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>rovernet mailing list
>rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
>instructions:
>http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
>Back-up list and photos at:
>http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
--
Vern Klukas I'm a little . . .
Inkspot Type & Design
vern at inkspotco.com
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:17:22 -0400
From: Glen Wilson <rovercar at comcast.net>
Subject: PETER Re: [ROVERNET - UK] tough nut (and more brake woes)
To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
Message-ID: <451C3BE2.9020301 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
peter king wrote:
> Thanks to all for your replies. I finally managed to get the nasty job
> done, using an impact tool and a modified socket, 1/16 smaller than
> the nut and pounded onto it. I broke the impact tool, but it did
> enough to allow me to swap my torque wrench onto the socket and get
> the nut to turn. Hoorah!! I finished the job this morning and I'm back
> on the road. Good thing, because the '63 P5's brakes just went south.
> I suspect the master failed, because the fluid drained and is nowhere
> to be seen, and when I started the car, a huge plume of white smoke
> poured out. My guess is that the fluid has been sucked into the head
> through the vacuum line. Does this sound right to you?
Sounds like a complete engine melt down precipitated by head gasket
failure and followed by extensive interocitor-induced failures
throughout the engine. I can tow that heap off of your property for a
small fee, and you won't have to worry about it any more. I would
definitely NOT put any more time or money into it, if I were you. I'm
just glad that I caught you in the nick of time before you wasted any
more resources on it. I'll send the truck round to pick it up.
Whew! Close one!
Glen
;-)
Actually, that's exactly what 1963 P4 did when the servo failed...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interocitor
http://www.shipbrook.com/jeff/interocitor/
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 08:03:35 +1000
From: "Paul Smith" <Paul.Smith at auroraenergy.com.au>
Subject: RE: [ROVERNET - UK] Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!!
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Message-ID:
<FBD1E865E6916B4B958ADFD21F42830C699DAB at corpexch1.corp.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
1. How much choke? A bit only? If it is only a bit at low revs, suspect
the butterfly shaft; but this sounds more comprehensive.
2. Fuel flow is suspect. Personally I like SU pumps, just fit a diode to
stop the points burning and they go forever. I'd retry one for the exercise
of proving the flow; see how quick a litre fills up with each pump.
3. Look at swapping a coil in too, they can give a weak spark, and check
the ign timing as way advanced can do what you said, particularly hot
running.
PVS
-----Original Message-----
From: rovernet-bounces at lyris.ccdata.com
[mailto:rovernet-bounces at lyris.ccdata.com]On Behalf Of Ben Rodgers
Sent: Friday, 29 September 2006 4:07 am
To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!!
Hi Guys
I need help! The Rover has me stumped (1967 P5 Mk3 Std )
The car starts and idles okay with full choke on , but once underway I can
hardly get out of second gear and continue to need choke. When I rev it
struggles and coughs back thru carb, and the engine dies, that indicates a
weak mixture, its also running on the hot side. At first it appeared to be
the mixture, too rich because of choke but I really believe its too much
air, (it coughs thru the carb). I have checked the carb, gas lines, air
connections etc, nothing obviously wrong. I decided it was not getting
enough gas and as everything checked out in the engine bay. I started at the
source, the gas tank, removed cleaned and sealed inside, replaced the dual
Lucas pumps with a single after market pump supplied by Ruth at ABC. Took
the car for a drive of about four miles it worked fair but not just right.
Stopped to filled up with gas then tried to start the car for return
journey, would barely idle and stalled when I tried to move. I noticed that
the distributor was very hot, heat shield wasn't quite in place (now
corrected). I waited while everything cooled and managed to drive home very
gently. Next I decided the petronix unit was cooked so replaced with points,
no improvement, still started easy and idled but no revs. I decided next the
coil, the wire was a bit green so replaced that, no improvement. I have to
date done the following - cleaned gas tank. replaced fuel pump. checked
everything from tank to engine (several times) checked carb float level,
checked all air connections. check coil and changed coil wire. cleaned and
re-gapped plugs. checked bolts on intake manifold. played with carb mixture
and air screw. I'm stumped, the problem seems to be that the engine is
running too weak, getting too much air, but where from. What else could it
be??. What am I missing here???? I need the help of the Rovernet Brain Trust
on this one please please please.
Regards Ben
Sitting in my
coracle stumped!
I have replaced the exhaust valves and had cylinder head cleaned and planed
approx two years ago, not many miles on car since.
FREDERICK (BEN) RODGERS
born in Belfast, Northern Ireland,
Author of "lily and me" a great book and a great read .
Order on line at amazon.com. Book # ISBN1-55430-019-3
_______________________________________________
rovernet mailing list
rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
instructions:
http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
Back-up list and photos at:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:19:53 -0700
From: "Slatskars" <slatskars at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!!
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Message-ID: <006a01c6e34c$3966dce0$6401a8c0 at FAMILYROOM>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Ben,
Did you check the oil level in the carb? It needs the resistance in order to
function as an accelerator pump. Starting and running fine at idle, but
backfiring through the carb on acceleration is an old symptom of a bad
condenser (capacitor). You might try replacing just that or going back to
the Pertronix.
I agree with Paul about the SU fuel pumps. I just fired my P-5 off today
after a couple of years and discovered that the main is not working, but the
reserve is. I will pull it and rebuild both sections soon. They are really
pretty simple and again, I agree with Paul regarding the diode across the
coil. It does make the points last longer. Unless the coils are bad in the
fuel pumps, there is no reason to replace them. They can easily be rebuilt
(points, diaphragm and diode) many times. You can test them by just
connecting them directly to a battery (watch the polarity, particularly with
a diode installed).
Slats
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Rodgers" <irishrover at netscape.ca>
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!!
> Hi Guys
> I need help! The Rover has me stumped (1967 P5 Mk3 Std )
> The car starts and idles okay with full choke on , but once underway I can
> hardly get out of second gear and continue to need choke. When I rev it
> struggles and coughs back thru carb, and the engine dies, that indicates a
> weak mixture, its also running on the hot side. At first it appeared to be
> the mixture, too rich because of choke but I really believe its too much
> air, (it coughs thru the carb). I have checked the carb, gas lines, air
> connections etc, nothing obviously wrong. I decided it was not getting
> enough gas and as everything checked out in the engine bay. I started at
> the
> source, the gas tank, removed cleaned and sealed inside, replaced the dual
> Lucas pumps with a single after market pump supplied by Ruth at ABC. Took
> the car for a drive of about four miles it worked fair but not just right.
> Stopped to filled up with gas then tried to start the car for return
> journey, would barely idle and stalled when I tried to move. I noticed
> that
> the distributor was very hot, heat shield wasn't quite in place (now
> corrected). I waited while everything cooled and managed to drive home
> very
> gently. Next I decided the petronix unit was cooked so replaced with
> points,
> no improvement, still started easy and idled but no revs. I decided next
> the
> coil, the wire was a bit green so replaced that, no improvement. I have to
> date done the following - cleaned gas tank. replaced fuel pump. checked
> everything from tank to engine (several times) checked carb float level,
> checked all air connections. check coil and changed coil wire. cleaned and
> re-gapped plugs. checked bolts on intake manifold. played with carb
> mixture
> and air screw. I'm stumped, the problem seems to be that the engine is
> running too weak, getting too much air, but where from. What else could it
> be??. What am I missing here???? I need the help of the Rovernet Brain
> Trust
> on this one please please please.
> Regards Ben
> Sitting in my
> coracle stumped!
>
>
> I have replaced the exhaust valves and had cylinder head cleaned and
> planed
> approx two years ago, not many miles on car since.
>
>
>
>
>
> FREDERICK (BEN) RODGERS
> born in Belfast, Northern Ireland,
> Author of "lily and me" a great book and a great read .
> Order on line at amazon.com. Book # ISBN1-55430-019-3
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rovernet mailing list
> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
> instructions:
> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> Back-up list and photos at:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
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rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
To unsubscribe, go to this web page, scroll to the bottom, and follow
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End of rovernet Digest, Vol 46, Issue 53
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