[ROVERNET - UK] Tuning TC carbs

Paul Smith vmitps at netspace.net.au
Mon Jul 3 11:39:05 BST 2006 

There is no easy way...

PVS

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fritz Rauschenberg" <wfritz at mindspring.com>
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: [ROVERNET - UK] Tuning TC carbs


> Dirk,
> Great idea! I will use that next time. In the mean time, I must replace
the
> clutch. I got advice from Ruth on how-to without pulling the engine. Any
> words of wisdom on that job?
> Fritz Rauschenberg
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Dirk Burrowes <dirk at vy-tek.com>
> > To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> > Date: 7/3/2006 12:13:47 AM
> > Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] Tuning TC carbs
> >
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > I recently rebuilt my carbs on my TC and did the following to balance
> them.
> >
> > 1) Unscrew the top from the suction chamber and remove damper rod on
both
> > carbs.
> >
> > 2) Use a small rod or sheet metal stick or even 2 identical pencils and
> push
> > them so they are level with one another. 3) Fix a piece of tape around
> each
> > rod/stick fold back on itself and leave a flag protruding off to the
side.
> >
> > 4) Start the car and let it idle 600 to 800 rpm
> >
> > Now watch each stick to see if the flags rise and fall as you rev the
> engine
> > equally. Adjust each carb until they rise and fall together.
> >
> > I have the carb setting tool and thought I was cool showing it off to a
> old
> > time British car mechanic ( who worked on Rovers in the 70s ) He scoffed
> and
> > showed the method described above and we were done in 5 minutes and the
> car
> > runs great.
> >
> > I found out later that there is a SU carb tool kit that includes
balancing
> > rods and jet tools. I found it new on EBay for $20.
> >
> > Give it a try
> >
> > Dirk
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rovernet-bounces at lyris.ccdata.com
> > [mailto:rovernet-bounces at lyris.ccdata.com] On Behalf Of
> > rovernet-request at lyris.ccdata.com
> > Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 9:40 PM
> > To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > Subject: rovernet Digest, Vol 44, Issue 4
> >
> > Send rovernet mailing list submissions to
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> >
> > [ROVERNET-UK]
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1.  TC CARB TUNE (Larry)
> >    2. Re:  TC CARB TUNE (Brooks)
> >    3. Re:  I've lost my balls!!!!!! (Eric Russell)
> >    4. Re:  TC CARB TUNE (Eric Russell)
> >    5. Re:  TC CARB TUNE (Slatskars)
> >    6. Re:  TC CARB TUNE (Glen Wilson)
> >    7. RE:  TC CARB TUNE (Paul Smith)
> >    8.  eBay Stores with Rover bits... (Glen Wilson)
> >    9.  Re: CKD Rovers (Drew Egginton)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 06:36:38 -0600
> > From: "Larry" <lewill at ctcweb.net>
> > Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
> > To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> > Message-ID: <001701c69dd4$2a8d9ff0$8c48e842 at hewlett2n8fn74>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> > reply-type=original
> >
> > I am trying to tune the carbs on a TC without the balancer that is
talked
> > about  in the manual. With 92 octane gas and at what idle RPM's would
one
> > set the timing? Any and all suggestions would be helpful. Thanks in
> advance.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:06:38 -0300
> > From: "Brooks" <restore at nbnet.nb.ca>
> > Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
> > To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> > Message-ID: <000c01c69dd8$5aa16060$0100a8c0 at DENNIS>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> > reply-type=response
> >
> > Some people have used a strip of paper hung in front of the
> openings...equal
> >
> > suction ...means equal balance.  Enjoy :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Larry" <lewill at ctcweb.net>
> > To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 9:36 AM
> > Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
> >
> >
> > >I am trying to tune the carbs on a TC without the balancer that is
> talked
> > >about  in the manual. With 92 octane gas and at what idle RPM's would
> one
> > >set the timing? Any and all suggestions would be helpful. Thanks in
> > >advance. Larry
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > rovernet mailing list
> > > rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
> > > instructions:
> > > http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> > > Back-up list and photos at:
> > > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 08:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Eric Russell <p6rovers at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] I've lost my balls!!!!!!
> > To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > Message-ID: <20060702153733.58021.qmail at web34315.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > How about a crawler for sliding under the car?  Do the
> > wheels have balls bearings sitting in a tray above
> > each wheel?
> >
> > Eroc
> >
> >
> > --- Paul Smith <vmitps at netspace.net.au> wrote:
> >
> > > Did you use a trolley jack that has them in the
> > > swivels?
> > > Also the size of ball is handy.
> > >
> > > PVS
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Lance La Certe" <lacpsyd at earthlink.net>
> > > To: "Rovernet" <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 1:51 PM
> > > Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] I've lost my balls!!!!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > > I suspect that I'm overly paranoid, but am sure
> > > that the cognoscenti of
> > > the
> > > > Rovernetters may be able to help.
> > > >
> > > > I have recently pulled the engine and tranny,
> > > along with EVERYTHING  else
> > > > in the engine bay (except the power steering box
> > > and linkage).  I have
> > > > completely painted the engine bay and as I wait
> > > for the engine to be
> > > > rebuilt I am cleaning, refurbishing everything
> > > under the hood----
> > > >
> > > > HERE'S THE PROBLEM---- As I have labeled and
> > > bagged all the various parts
> > > I
> > > > have come upon 3 BALL BEARINGS on the garage
> > > floor.  It is possibly, but
> > > > I'm not so sure how likely, that they were there
> > > before.  Does anyone know
> > > > if ball bearings are part of any assemblage, so
> > > that when I removed it
> > > from
> > > > the engine bay they just fell out?????
> > > >
> > > > I'm convinced I'm going to get the whole front of
> > > the car back together
> > > and
> > > > something is going to be terribly wrong because of
> > > these balls bearings.
> > > >
> > > > Any help would be appreciated..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lance La Certe, Denver,  '70  'Federal' 3500S
> > > > lacpsyd at earthlink.net
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > rovernet mailing list
> > > > rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > > > To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the
> > > bottom and follow
> > > instructions:
> > > >
> > > http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> > > > Back-up list and photos at:
> > > > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -- 
> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 -
> > > Release Date: 30/06/2006
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > rovernet mailing list
> > > rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the
> > > bottom and follow instructions:
> > > http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> > > Back-up list and photos at:
> > > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
> > >
> >
> >
> > Webmaster:
> > The Rover Car Club of Canada -  www.roverclub.ca
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 08:46:53 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Eric Russell <p6rovers at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
> > To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > Message-ID: <20060702154654.85632.qmail at web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > Larry,
> > The new carbs would idle at about 850 to 900 with 100
> > octane gas.
> >
> > (I'm remembering Bob Newhart's "Defusing a Bomb"
> > comedy line here.....
> > <http://monologues.co.uk/Bob_Newhart/Defusing_a_Bomb.htm>).
> >  ['This plate should be removed with an LT5
> > screwdriver with a plastic handle and a de-magnetised
> > tip'... Oh, you don't have one, huh?...
> > Augh!... use a coin then, Willard! ]
> >
> > You don't have new carbs or 100 octane gas.  Raise the
> > idle target to 1000 rpm but be careful when shifting
> > into reverse.
> >
> > A good friend showed be how to use a piece of rubber
> > pipe (old rad hose?) to listen to the hiss of air at
> > each carb.  A higher "hiss" noise meant greater vacuum
> > so we'd adjust the idle screw up or down depending on
> > which carb we were trying to match.
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >
> > --- Larry <lewill at ctcweb.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I am trying to tune the carbs on a TC without the
> > > balancer that is talked
> > > about  in the manual. With 92 octane gas and at what
> > > idle RPM's would one
> > > set the timing? Any and all suggestions would be
> > > helpful. Thanks in advance.
> > > Larry
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > rovernet mailing list
> > > rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the
> > > bottom and follow instructions:
> > > http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> > > Back-up list and photos at:
> > > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
> > >
> >
> >
> > Webmaster:
> > The Rover Car Club of Canada -  www.roverclub.ca
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:13:12 -0700
> > From: "Slatskars" <slatskars at comcast.net>
> > Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
> > To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> > Message-ID: <001d01c69df2$6acc7af0$6401a8c0 at FAMILYROOM>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> > reply-type=response
> >
> > Take a short piece  (about 24 inches) of 1/4" hose, such as vacuum line
> or
> > fuel line. Put one end in your ear (either one) place the other end in
> the
> > opening of the carb about 1/4". Use your thumb nail as a gauge. You will
> be
> > able to hear the air flow and compare them. You can get very close this
> way.
> >
> > This is what we did back in the late 50's before we had unisyns. Note:
> You
> > disconnect the connecting linkage between the carbs before balancing
> them.
> > Then reconnect the linkage and set the idle speed. You could also use a
> > stethoscope if you have one. Unisyns are not terribly expensive, about
> $20.
> >
> > Slats
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Larry" <lewill at ctcweb.net>
> > To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 5:36 AM
> > Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
> >
> >
> > >I am trying to tune the carbs on a TC without the balancer that is
> talked
> > >about  in the manual. With 92 octane gas and at what idle RPM's would
> one
> > >set the timing? Any and all suggestions would be helpful. Thanks in
> > >advance. Larry
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > rovernet mailing list
> > > rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
> > > instructions:
> > > http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> > > Back-up list and photos at:
> > > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:43:44 -0400
> > From: Glen Wilson <glenwilson at cavtel.net>
> > Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
> > To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > Message-ID: <200607022043.44921.glenwilson at cavtel.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > (Eric, 1000 rpm sounds awfully high for a Rover...)
> >
> > Larry's question mixes up about three or four different issues. This is
> the
> > kind of stuff that drives me crazy about dual-SU setups because most of
> the
> > procedures and advice go out the window right at the beginning if the
> carbs
> > are not in tip top shape. Any leaks or worn parts can mess it all up.
> >
> > A calibration procedure must be broken down and performed in a number of
> > steps
> > in a particular order because several of the adjustments are interactive
> and
> >
> > affect each other. Sometimes when you are dealing with two adjustments,
> one
> > will change the other but not vice versa. Therefore you have to procede
> so
> > that when you have one setting adjusted properly, you don't immediately
> > screw
> > it up when you make the next adjustment.
> >
> > Correct me if I'm wrong in the following because I am not the guru. This
> is
> > a
> > general conceptual description written as sort of an intellectual
exercise
> > to
> > refresh my understanding.
> >
> > 1. Basics...Get in the ballpark by setting the plug gap, static timing,
> > point
> > gap/dwell angle, and set the jets to the same number of flats on both
> carbs
> > (how many, I don't know). When you do all of this, you should be aware
of
> > whether or not you have the distributor vacuum timing advance disabled
or
> > functioning, and you should make certain that the little weights in the
> > distributor for centrifugal advance are lubed and able to swing freely.
> The
> > weights change your timing curve and ignition timing depending on the
> speed
> > of your engine. Usually, when you use a timing light, the vacuum advance
> is
> > disabled and the engine rpms are kept low enough that the centrifugal
> > weights
> > are not activated and changing the timing. The engine speed at which you
> > adjust the timing using a timing light may or may NOT be the same as the
> > basic idle speed of your engine.
> >
> > 2. Mixture...Regardless of the amount of air flowing through the carb,
> the
> > ratio of air to fuel must be within a certain range. I would think that
a
> > tool like a Gunson Colortune sparkplug thingamajig is the rational way
to
> go
> >
> > to get the mixture pretty close. Once you're going down the road, you
can
> > check the color of the sparkplugs to see if any cylinders are rich or
> lean.
> > I would think that the mixture (air/fuel ratio) would have to be correct
> and
> >
> > pretty much the same in each carb before you fine tune the balance,
> timing,
> > or idle speed.
> >
> > 3. Balancing...This has to do with balancing out the volume of air
> flowing
> > through each of the two carbs in a given time at a given engine speed. I
> > guess the real point is to have all four cylinders firing more or less
> > evenly
> > because they are getting about the same amount of fuel-air mixture.
> Loosen
> > the link between the carbs before attempting to balance. If the carbs
are
> > good, putting the jets to the same setting should result in a pretty
well
> > balanced situation. Mixture-wise, this should make them pretty much the
> same
> >
> > be it rich, lean or just right. You can use a carb balancing tool,
listen
> to
> >
> > a tube for equivalent hissing sound, or whatever. Regardless of what
> these
> > techniques tell you, the bottom line is that the engine must run
smoothly.
> > To
> > my way of thinking, balancing the carbs is really a rather fine
adjustment
> > to
> > compensate for minor manufacturing differences between two carbs that
are
> > both basically within spec and with the same needles and jets. You
adjust
> > the
> > jets to get the correct mixture, then adjust the basic reference
throttle
> > opening of each carb separately to achieve balance between the carbs,
> lock
> > the linkage between the carbs to keep them the same in relation to each
> > other, and then set the idle speed using the adjustment that adjusts
both
> > carbs as one unit.
> >
> > 3. Timing...Haven't we established before on this list that there isn't
> all
> > that much difference between 92 octane unleaded on the current octane
> rating
> >
> > scheme and 100 octane on the old P6-era scheme? I would think the best
> thing
> >
> > to do without a rolling road would be to ballpark it and then adjust the
> > timing at the distributor until you just eliminate the pinging under
load.
> > No
> > matter what numbers you adjust to, you still have to get rid of the
> > pre-detonation under load, and adjusting much beyond that just reduces
> power
> >
> > without gaining anything. You may then have to go back and fine tune
your
> > idle speed, but your mixture and carb balance don't need to be
readjusted.
> >
> > So, what did I leave out and what mistakes have I made in this general
> > description?
> >
> > Glen
> > -- 
> > ~ Glen Wilson ~
> > http://stores.ebay.com/EasyAuctionServicesPA
> > Adding new stock daily...
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 11:01:25 +1000
> > From: Paul Smith <Paul.Smith at auroraenergy.com.au>
> > Subject: RE: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
> > To: "'rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com'" <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> > Message-ID:
> >
> > <9409B494C2CED611BADF00508B948EF813BB1F0A at excha01.auroraenergy.com.au>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > You forgot to mention to keep your cat out of the carburettor work area.
> > Nerm walked around the engine bay of the Passat (Rabbit in US?) I had
> > (needed a wagon, thus non Rover) while I was cleaning the carb.  Result:
> it
> > ran terribly; had to pull carb apart Again to find a black hair somehow
> > lodged in the idle circuit.
> > Nerm was black...
> >
> > PVS
> >
> > So, what did I leave out and what mistakes have I made in this general
> > description?
> >
> > Glen
> > -- 
> > ~ Glen Wilson ~
> > http://stores.ebay.com/EasyAuctionServicesPA
> > Adding new stock daily...
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > rovernet mailing list
> > rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
> > instructions:
> > http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> > Back-up list and photos at:
> > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 21:02:08 -0400
> > From: Glen Wilson <glenwilson at cavtel.net>
> > Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] eBay Stores with Rover bits...
> > To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > Message-ID: <200607022102.08394.glenwilson at cavtel.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I've now set up an eBay store, and I have a few Rover parts to move
> through
> > there, but I am small potatoes and will run out of Rover bits to sell in
> a
> > month or two.
> >
> > What about some of you people who sell there regularly? I know James
Dean
> > has
> > an eBay store, and I thought Pierre sold Rover parts on eBay. I'm not
> aware
> > that Dermot has a web presence. If anyone out there has a place online
> where
> >
> > they regularly sell Rover bits, you might want to let us know so that we
> can
> >
> > include a link on the new RSTCA Part Supplier web page that we're
> finishing
> > up. You can just send the info to the list or send it to me off-list at
> > glenwilson at cavtel.net
> >
> > Glen
> > -- 
> > ~ Glen Wilson ~
> > http://stores.ebay.com/EasyAuctionServicesPA
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 09:38:45 +0800
> > From: Drew Egginton <drew at pitstop.net.au>
> > Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] Re: CKD Rovers
> > To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > Message-ID: <44A87525.8010109 at pitstop.net.au>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > Series II P6B 3500 automatics for the Australian & NZ market were built
> > in Nelson, NZ from c1971 to c1976, whereas the 3500S we received here
> > downunder came all the way from Solihull. The NZ CKD cars were shipped
> > from the UK minus their roof structures to save space and had a bit of
> > NZ content like glass, carpets etc.
> >
> > I believe a handful of P4s were assembled in Australia the late 1950s to
> > see if this was viable, but does any one else know any more about these?
> >
> > Andrew Egginton
> > W Australia
> >
> > John Burkhard wrote:
> >
> > > Did The Rover Co. Ltd. really build saloons in New Zealand, Australia
> > > or South Africa?  Or were those a KDK operation?
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Kinard" <kkinard at wcc.net>
> > > To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 9:44 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] RE: Rover news
> > >
> > >
> > >> So Glen,
> > >> What is a "real" Rover?  Is a Jensen not a Jensen when it has an
> > >> engine from Austin, or Chrysler or Lotus?
> > >> Is a Marcos not a Marcos if it has a Ford, or Volvo or Rover engine?
> > >> Is a Morgan not a Morgan if it has a Triumph or BMW engine?
> > >> Is a Rover not a Rover if it has a Honda or Buick or VM engine?  Is
> > >> it once again spring when the sap rises and Roverites debate the
> > >> question of the ages in its latest iteration?  Is a Rover a Rover if
> > >> it is built  in China? Were New Zealand and South African built
> > >> Rovers any less a Rover?
> > >>
> > >> And so it begins....again....
> > >>
> > >> Roverevolutionarily,
> > >> Kent K.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 12:20:09 -0400
> > >>  Glen Wilson <glenwilson at cavtel.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Friday 30 June 2006 12:03, Eric Russell wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Now would that be the old Rover 75 or the NEW Rover
> > >>>> 75?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> from  "died in the wool" P6 owner with no idea about
> > >>>> any 75
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> That would be an "old" 75 which was a REAL Rover...
> > >>>
> > >>> Oh, my God! Did I click...SEND?!?!?!?!
> > >>>
> > >>> (flames)
> > >>>
> > >>> ;-)
> > >>>
> > >>> Glen
> > >>>
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